Part 2 The Unavoidable Battle.
66/03/02 New York, Bhagavad-gita 2.7-11
So these are opulences: wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation -- six things. Anyone who possess all these six opulences in full, He is God. That is the definition of God. So when Krsna was present on this earth, He showed His opulence, opulences, in full. Opulences in full. Of course, we have got all these historical records about Him. Now, so far His wealth is concerned, He had 16,108 wives. And for each of them, for each of them, He built a palace. And all those palaces were so nicely built that there was no need of electricity or light. It was bedecked with jewels. So day and night, they were blazing. You see? So these description are there. But if we forget that, that He is God, then this will be something like story, that "How a man can marry sixteen thousand wives? How He...?" But we should always remember that He is God. He is all-powerful. And for no other person such historical records are there, only for Krsna. So in strength also nobody could conquer Him. And beauty... So far beauty is concerned, when He was on the battlefield... Have you seen any picture of Krsna? Have you seen? Oh, no. Any one of you have seen Krsna? Krsna, when He was present in the battle, Battlefield of Kuruksetra, at that time He was about ninety years old. Ninety years old. He had His great-grandchildren. He married sixteen thousand wives, and each wife had ten children. And those ten children, they also got, each, ten, twelve children. And they had children also. Because He was at that time ninety years old, He got at that time great-grandchildren also. So His family was very great. Now, if you see the picture of Krsna, you'll see Him just like a boy of twenty-two, twenty-five years old. He was so beautiful. He was so beautiful. Then... That is the sign of God. It is stated in Brahma-samhita, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca [Bs. 5.33]. He is the original person. Because from God everyone has born, therefore He is the original person, adyam. Purana-purusam. Purana means the oldest person. Still, nava-yauvanam ca. Whenever you will see God... That is the... This is the sign of God. You'll find Him just like a youth, a new youth. Youthfulness means, say, sixteen to twenty-four years. So nava-yauvanam ca. That is the sign of God. So He was so beautiful that when He was a boy of fifteen years old His, the whole, I mean, of His, of the same age girls, girls of His age, they were after Him. He was so beautiful. So in beauty He was superexcellent. In wealth He was superexcellent. In strength He was superexcellent. And in knowledge...
Now, here is a book, Bhagavad-gita. Now, apart from other books, other knowledge which He imparted to other..., now, here is a book which was imparted to Arjuna. Now, it is so, the depth of knowledge..., that people are still considering, great, great scholars. We are not reading, but Dr. Radhakrishnan, one of the greatest scholars of the world -- now he is the president of India -- he is discussing. Professor Einstein, he was living here in America. He was a German Jew, and I think he was living in America. He was a great student of this Bhagavad-gita. Hitler. Hitler was a great student of Bhagavad-gita. And there were many scholars still reading Bhagavad-gita, trying to understand. Just see what best depth of knowledge He has given. It is made by Krsna. So in knowledge, in wealth, in strength, in beauty, and in everything He was opulent. Therefore He is Bhagavan. You cannot accept any ordinary man as Bhagavan. So therefore Bhagavan. Now, bhagavan uvaca. And because He has been accepted as the spiritual master... Just like a teacher has the right to sometimes rebuke the student, so in the first instance He is rebuking Arjuna in the following words that
asocyan anvasocas tvam
prajna-vadams ca bhasase
gatasun agatasums ca
that "Arjuna, you are speaking just like a very great, learned man, but you are... You are... In other words, you are a fool. You do not know how things are going on because panditah, those who are learned men, they would not have lamented just like you are doing." That means indirectly He says... Panditah means learned. Learned man does not lament over a dead body or a living body. Gatasun agatasums ca. Asun means life. One has lost his life. And one has got his life, a body, living body and a dead body, living body and a dead body. Just mark the point, that "A learned man... As you are lamenting over the subject of killing your friends and relatives, but a learned man would not have lamented like this. That means you are a fool." When He says... Just like if I say, "Mr. Green, what you have done, any intelligent man should not have done this." So this is indirectly saying that "You are not intelligent." It is in a gentleman's way, speaking that "Mr. Green, what you are doing, no intelligent man can do this." That means "You are not intelligent." So here He say that "You are lamenting over the bodies of your relatives because in the fight you are considering that 'My friends and my relatives will be killed,' so that means they are living bodies, and you are lamenting over the, over their killing. So this sort of lamentation is never done by a learned man. A learned man never does it." Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah [Bg. 2.11]. "Those who are learned, one who is learned, he does not lament over the body, either a living body or dead body. There is no question of..." Now, because one who knows the distinction between the body and the soul, firmly con... Just like you have heard the name of Socrates. Soc..., a great philosopher, Greek philosopher. He believed in the immortality of soul. So he was punished in the court. Hemlock. Hemlock was offered to him, that "All right, if you believe the immortality of soul, then you drink this hemlock poison." So he drunk because he was firmly convinced that "Even if I drink this poison... My body will be destroyed, but by destruction of my body, I am not going to be destroyed." He was convinced. So he did not lament. So a pandita, learned man, must know that this body and soul, the distinction, the difference between body and soul... The body is not soul, and the soul is not body, and one who knows, he is learned man. This instruction is given first. So for spiritual advancement this first knowledge, that the body and the soul is different... This body cannot be identified with the soul. You see? The soul is there, but body is not soul. Body is not soul. So every learned man knows it, and we should be...I think we can stop here.
Prabhupada: So Krsna is, in this sen..., He's identified, that bhagavan. Bhagavan means that nobody can surpass His knowledge. Because I have already given the definition of bhagavan, that a personality who is in full, all the opulences -- wealth, strength, fame and knowledge, beauty and renunciation -- He is God. You see? So... Now, in this, at the present moment, when people are godless, I think, this definition is convincing. If you find out a personality that, one who has got in full all these opulences, He is God. Then it will be very difficult to present an ordinary man as God. You see? You'll find that in the Bhagavad-gita, when Arjuna was convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead... But because in future others will have doubt about Krsna, he requested Krsna that "Will You show me Your universal form?" And Krsna agreed and showed him the universal form. That means in future any intelligent man, accepting a so-called God, may also ask him, "Just show something, that you are God." Without showing something, simply by false advertisement, one cannot be God. So whole mistake is that we do not know what is God. We consider God may be just like one of us. No. The God who is controlling such a huge affairs of universal administration, He cannot be, He is superconscious. That is superconsciousness.
Now, here, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. Now, the whole living existence is a very subtle thing. Now, this body, this body made of earth, water, fire, air, sky, this gross body; and behind this, there is another subtle body. That is mind, intelligence and ego. So when we give up this gross body, that subtle body carries me to another gross body. So when this, this body is lifeless, that body, subtle body, is not lifeless. Just like at night, when this gross body is asleep, the subtle body works. Therefore we dream. So subtle body carries to next life. And I have given in the introduction that how one man changes his body. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Now, the subtle body, I mean to say, mind, intelligence and ego, when these three things, psychic life, is absorbed in a certain kind of thought, the dying man gets a similar body in the next life. The, that we shall come when we make progress in the study of Bhagavad-gita. Just like the air passing over the rose tree carries the flavor of the rose, and the air passing over a filthy place carries the flavor of that filthy place -- the air is pure, but because it is passing over certain conditions, it carries the flavor -- similarly, the mind, intelligence and ego carries the flavor of our present activities to the next life. That is the subtle mystery of transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Now, if this, this life we purify just like rose, then next life we shall get a body which is full of flavor. If, if, if in this life, if we practice devotion of God, then next life is to become the associate of God. That cintamani-prakara-sadmasu... We are transferred to that planet. You see? These are simple things. The whole thing is in my hand. If I want to be degraded, I can prepare myself in this life for such degradation in the next life. And if we want to elevate ourself to the highest perfection of life, as to become one of the associates of God, we can prepare ourself like that. You'll find in the, in the advanced chapters, that yanti deva-vrata devan pitrn yanti pitr-vratah [Bg. 9.25]. Now, we are trying to go to the moon planet. Now, here, in this life, if cultivate ourself for the same thought, the moon planet... That means the moon planet, about moon planet, we have to hear, and we have to think that "I shall go in such and such place." Unless you hear, you cannot abide here. Just like our friend, Mr. Cohen, he has left for California. Now, so far I am concerned, I have no idea of California. Now, he has told me that after reaching there, he'll write about the description of the place. Now, suppose if, reading that description of the place, I think of going there, so I prepare myself, "Oh, I must go there." So just like I, I was describing that cintamani-dhama [Bs. 5.29], what sort of trees are there. And you were very much pleased that "I must go there." So we have to hear. Unless we hear what sort of God He is, what sort of God's place is, what is the mode of life there, we cannot be attracted. We cannot be attracted.So here they say that gatasun agatasums ca. There are two, two sort of bodies in which we are now entered. Now, suppose this gross body appears to be now dead and gone, stopped, but one must know that subtle body has carried him to another body. So subtle body is not lost life. The life is there. So here Krsna says that either of the gross body or of... Subtle body has to be also left. When you get liberation, when you get liberation, that subtle body, that egoistic life, has also to be left. Now, at any condition, the body has to be left. So why one should cry for this body? Therefore Krsna says that "A learned man does not lament over this body." The whole question, that a soul is different from this body, the whole question is solved in one verse. You see? Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah [Bg. 2.11]. "One who is actually learned, he does not, he has no concern of this body. He's concerned with the activities of the soul. So you are speaking of so many things that 'If these, my friends, die, the, I mean to say, their wives will become widow.' These are all... According to the bodily relation, you are speaking. And you are posing yourself just like a very learned man, but you are a fool number one because your whole conception is on the body. Your whole conception of argument with Me was on the body, but you are, you are posing himself just as if you are very learned man." So anyone who has got conception, the identification of this body, he's not a learned man. He's a fool. He may be, in the calculation of academic education, he may be B.A., M.A., Ph.D., DAC, or something like, doctors and..., but if he has got his identification with this body, he's not a learned man according to Bhagavad-gita. Not only according, according to whole Vedic literature. This is the first instruction. This is the... If we want to make progress towards spiritual advancement of knowledge, this preliminary knowledge we must have, that "I am not this body. I am not this body." This is the preliminary standing of spiritual knowledge. This is not advancement. This is simply A-B-C-D, ABCD of spiritual life. In the Bhagavata there is a very nice verse in this connection in which it is stated, yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Kunape means this bag, this bag made of three elements. Now, according to Ayurvedic medical system, this body is made of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayu.
Woman: Three elements?
Prabhupada: Yes. Kapha. Kapha means cold, coldness.
Prabhupada: Cough, cough, what do you call cough? Coughing. Yes. Kapha, pitta, vayu: "coldness, heat and air." Yes. Only these three things constitute this body. Therefore it is called a bag made of three elements: coldness, air and fire, heat. Heat, coldness and air -- this body's made.
Woman: What, what does coldness stand for?
Prabhupada: Coldness, you can take it for water, or secretion.
Woman: Yes. Water, fire and air.
Prabhupada: Water, fire and air.
Woman: That's better.
Prabhupada: Now, the Bhagavata says that yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke: [SB 10.84.13] "If anyone, he's identified with this body made of water, air and fire..." And yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. This is a body made of three things. Now... And sva-dhih kalatradisu: "And if one thinks the issues, the by-products of this body as his own kinsmen..." Just like my children, my wife, my relatives, my father, my mother, my brother, my nation, my society -- everything is due to this bodily relation. And there are thousands of women loitering in the street of New York, and suppose I have got some ma..., bodily connection with you, I call you my wife. And because I have got bodily relation with you, all the children produced by you, they are my children. You see? So whole thing is... The basic principle is wrong, that "I am this body." Now, from the expansion of the body, the whole thing, the whole thing is false. Because I am not this body, so my expansion of body is also not I am. But whole world is going on on this false impression. The whole world is going on. The fight, the fighting between one nation and another nation -- because due to this body. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. "One who is identified with this body, which is made of water, fire and, water, fire and air, and the issues from this body as kinsmen and own men..." Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dha.., sva-dhih kalatradisu: "And," I mean to say, "attachment, attachment for such issues..." And bhauma-ijya-dhih: "And the land from which this body has grown up, that is worshipable." Now everybody is fighting for the land. "Oh, we are Indian." "We are Pakistani." "We are Vietnamese." "We are Americans." "We are German." The fighting, so much fighting is going on. The land, for the land. So land, land has become worshipable, so worshipable that one is sacrificed his valuable life for that land. You see? But the land is so dear, why? This body has become grown up from this land. So that is also there, the bodily connection.
So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma-ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. In the land... They have no meaning for God. Now, the Russian philosophy, they have no meaning for God, but they have every meaning for their land, for the land. So land has been identified as worshipable, and they're prepared to sacrifice anything for the land. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke: "One who is identified with this body and one who thinks the bodily offshoots as his own men, and the land from which the body has grown as worshipable," yat-tirtha-buddhih salile.
Yat-tirtha-buddhih salile. Now, in Christian world also, that the water of the Jordan River is sacred is considered. Similarly, Hindus also, when they go to some pilgrimage, they take bath on the sacred river. But one should know that going to the sacred place does not mean simply to take bath in that water. Real meaning of going to a sacred place -- to find out some intelligent scholar in spiritual knowledge. They are living there. To make association with them, to take knowledge from them -- that is the purpose of going to pilgrimage. Because in pilgrimage, holy places... Just like I, my residence is at Vrndavana. So at Vrndavana there are many great scholars and saintly persons living. So one should go to such holy places not simply to take bath in the water, but he must be intelligent enough to find out some spiritually advanced man living there and take instruction from him and (be) benefited by that. But he does not go. He takes simply bath and purchases some goods and advertises, "Oh, I have been to such and such pilgrimage." Well... yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13] and yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu: "He has the attachment for pilgrimage, for taking bath only, but he has no attraction for the learned people there." You see?
So such kind of man is considered as ass. Sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Go-khara. Go-khara. Go means cow or..., and khara means ass. So practically the whole world is moving as the civilization of cow and asses because the whole thing is identification with this... The center is this body, and expansion of the body, the attraction, whole attraction is there. Yes? You want to...?
Woman: Yes. In the Indian places known as sacred places...
Prabhupada: Sac... Yes.
Woman: ...isn't ...sacred places...
Woman: ...isn't it also a fact that there is more magnetism there because of the meeting of...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Certainly.
Woman: ...saints and more people...?(?)
Prabhupada: Certainly. Certainly. Certainly. Therefore the place itself has got some magnetism. You see?
Woman: Yes. And when...
Prabhupada: Just like at Vrndavana, at Vrndavana... That is practical. Now here I am sitting, New York, a very great, the world's greatest city, so magnificent city, but my heart is always hankering after that Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Yes. I am not happy here.
Woman: Yes, I know.
Prabhupada: I shall be very happy to return to my Vrndavana, that sacred place. "But then why you are...?" Now, because it is my duty. I have brought some message for you people. Because I am ordered by superior, my spiritual master, that "Whatever you have learned, you should go to the Western countries, and you must distribute this knowledge." So in spite of all my difficulties, all my inconveniences, I am here because I am in duty. I, I... That is my personal convenience, if I go and sit down at Vrndavana, I shall be very comfortable there. And I'll be, I'll have no anxiety, nothing of the sort. You see? But I have taken all the risk in the old age because I am in duty-bound. I am in duty-bound. So I have to execute my duty in spite of all my inconveniences. That is the idea.
So this is the whole thing, the whole basic principle of spiritual advancement of knowledge. One should first be convinced that he is not this body. He is not this body. Then other spiritual knowledge will begin. This is the basic principle. You'll find it. You'll find it in the Bhagavad-gita that this situation of spiritual life is called brahma-bhutah. Brahman. So
na socati na kanksati
samah sarvesu bhutesu
mad-bhaktim labhate param
So the, unless one understands himself, he also cannot understand God also. In his, in his misunderstanding position... Now, what Dr. Mishra is teaching is very nice because he is teaching that "Just first of all you know 'What I am, what I...' " That's very good. But that "what I am" can be known from the Bhagavad-gita also, that "I am not this body. I am not this body." That knowledge, at least theoretically, one must accept, that "I am not this body." Now Krsna is describing that what is the position. I am not this body. That's all right. Now, actually, what we are? What we are? I'm not body. That's all right. Then what we are? Now, the next, next version is Krsna... We must always know that Krsna... Here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan uvaca. Bhagavan uvaca means that He has got so extensive knowledge that there cannot be any mistake. He's authority. He's authority. So whatever He says is right. Is right. That is the conception of bhagavan. Here it is not said, Krsnah uvaca. Because somebody may doubt Krsna, that "Krsna was a historical personality. Why you should be so much concerned with Krsna?" as is general view. But here it is said, bhagavan uvaca. And I have given you the definition of Bhagavan, that He is all knowledge. So whatever He will speak, Bhagavan, there cannot be any mistake. For ordinary persons, there are four, I mean to say, difficulties, four imperfectness. Just like we are ordinary man. We have got four imperfectness. What is that imperfectness? That we must commit mistake. We must commit mistake. Our constitutional position at the present moment is such that we are sure to commit mistake. Even greatest politician like Gandhi, he committed mistake, and so many great men, they committed mistake. "To err is human," therefore, it is called, that any, any man, however he may be great in the estimation of this world, he is sure to commit mistake. And another imperfection is that he is illusioned.
Prabhupada: Illusioned. Now, illusioned you can see. Illusioned means taking one thing for another. That is called illusion. Just like in the desert, accepting the sand as water. That is called illusion. Similarly, every one of us who are identified with this body, he's under illusion. That is a false thing, but he has no knowledge. Even President Johnson, he's under illusion. Even the greatest scientist, he's under this illusion. So that, one is sure to commit mistake, and one is under illusion, and bhrama, pramada and vipralambhana... Vipralambhana means the tendency for cheating.
Woman: That is the fourth?
Prabhupada: That is the third. First is that one is sure to commit mistake, one is sure to be in illusion, and one is adapted to cheat others. Now, he is imperfect, but he wants to give knowledge to others. That is cheating. Everyone is imperfect, but he wants to give knowledge to others. Then you can ask that "You are also giving us knowledge?" No, I am not giving you knowledge. I am speaking Bhagavad-gita. I am giving you knowledge as given by Lord Krsna. It is not my knowledge.
Woman: But this is own interpretation.
Prabhupada: Eh? Not interpretation. It is reading.
Woman: One can cheat.
Prabhupada: I give you... Cheat. No, that is also in the definition of a conditioned soul. These four principles are there. It is not my manufactured thing. The, these are information from authoritative scripture, that a conditioned soul has four imperfectness. One imperfectness is that he's sure to commit mistake. He's illusioned, and he has got a tendency to cheat, and, above all, his senses are imperfect. So anyone who is above all these four imperfectness -- who never commits mistake, who is never illusioned, who never cheats others, and who has got perfect senses -- He is God.
Prabhupada: Now, the next question is that the Mayavadi philosophers, they say that "Because I am now covered in ignorance, therefore I see individuals." Yes.
Woman: Is that a main claim?(?)
Prabhupada: Yes. My... This individual experience that you are Mr. Such and Such, you are Mr. Such and Such, you are Mrs. Such and Such, this individual experience, is due to my ignorance. And generally, they give the example of a disease. I think it is called, medical terms, myopia. Myopia means they see this moon in two. The eyes become so defective that whenever they see things, they see two.
Woman: No, that's astigmatism.
Prabhupada: Uh, yes.
Woman: Myopia is when you have to see very near.
Prabhupada: I said... It may not be myopia, but some disease.
Woman: Astigmatism. Some sees, if somebody sees...
Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes...
Woman: Astigmatism. In two, if somebody sees. Astigmatism.
Woman: In two. Is it a sickness?
Prabhupada: Yes. It is sickness.
Woman: In the eyes.
Prabhupada: Because, because the thing is one, but due to my disease of the eye, I see one thing, two. That is a disease. There is a disease like that. So...
Woman: Usually people who drink.
Prabhupada: Anyway, that's an abnormal condition. In abnormal condition sometimes we can see one thing into two, divided into two. So now that ignorance, you cannot apply to Krsna because He's all-perfect. And if He is not all-perfect, then there is no value of His instruction. A man with defect in knowledge cannot impart instructions. His instructions... Therefore the whole Vedic process is parampara system. Parampara system means that I cannot deviate. I cannot make any interpretation. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. You'll find in the Fourth Chapter. Now we are reading Second Chapter. You'll find, as we have explained in the introduction of Bhagavad-gita, that because... Just like I am speaking to you. I am an imperfect person. I cannot give you any knowledge. I cannot manufacture any knowledge. If I do that, then I shall deceive you. I can simply present before you the original knowledge. I can explain it in an understandable way but not deviating from the original text. Now, here it is clearly stated by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that na tu eva aham jatu [Bg. 2.12]. Aham. Aham means Sri Krsna Himself. Now sometimes we make some grammatical jugglery of words, but I cannot understand. Now, aham, "myself," when I speak aham, or "myself," is applicable to me. When you speak, the aham is applicable to you. But that does not mean because there is a common understanding of myself between you and me, therefore I... Now that I and you become one. When you speak, you say, "I speak." When I say, I say, "I speak." That does not mean this "I" and that "I" becomes one. So Sri Krsna says like that, na tu aham.
Woman: Ah, yes.
Prabhupada: He. That means this aham, Sri Krsna. And na tvam: "And you." That means Arjuna. And na ime janadhipah: "Neither all these kings." He's dividing the whole audience into three: "Myself, yourself and they." And again He confirms it, sarve: "all." He never identifies into one. So this is the version of Sri Krsna. Now, if I say that our interpretation of aham, I, myself, yourself, and he, or she, different vision, this is due to our ignorance. You can say. Because I am ignorant, it may be my mistake, that I see differently from you. But Sri Krsna, Lord Sri Krsna, cannot see like that. He is above all this ignorance because He's all-perfect. And we have already defined that the Supreme Lord is full of knowledge. So... He's full of knowledge, supreme knowledge. Now, if the Supreme Personality, with full knowledge... He cannot commit any mistake.
Prabhupada: How can He commit any mistake? Then there is no meaning of full knowledge. If you are in full knowledge, then how you can commit mistake? So this ignorance of duality, because they say that "We see two because it is due to our ignorance. All, everything is one," but here you cannot apply that ignorance to Sri Krsna. Otherwise, His instruction of whole Bhagavad-gita, which is so importantly taken by all authorities, all scholars, then it is at once rejected. If it is supposed that Sri Krsna was also to commit mistake, or He was in imperfect knowledge, then whole thing becomes rejected. So it is not, not like that.
So Sri Krsna, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He's in full knowledge, and therefore as He says that "Either Myself or yourself or all these persons, kings and soldiers, who are assembled here, they're all individuals. In the past they were individuals, in the present we are individuals, and in the future they will continue to be individuals." Now, one thing... Suppose another argument is that due to ignorance... Just like an animal. It thinks that there is water in the desert, on the reflec...
Prabhupada: Water in the desert. Now, in the desert, due to sun's reflection... You might have experienced in the street also, during blazing sun. It appears like water. Now, that animal, because it has no knowledge, it is, I mean to say, flying towards water in the desert. Although there is no water. But a sane man like you and me, or a human being, he knows that there is no water. There is no water. So this direction, that there is water, this mistake is committed by the animal because he, it has no sufficient knowledge. But one, a human being who has got sufficient knowledge, he does not commit that mistake. Yes.
Woman: Does an animal make that mistake? I thought the animals...
Woman: ...wouldn't, would, uh...
Prabhupada: No, no. This is a...
Woman: ...not see the water that our eyes tell us that there is a mirage in the desert.
Prabhupada: Yes. I mean to say, any sane man who has got the knowledge that "This is only reflection of the sun; it is not water," he will never go there. He knows that it is useless to search water in the desert. Similarly, if Sri Krsna is in full knowledge, He cannot say that in future also we shall all remain individuals. He says that in the future also we shall continue to be individuals. Now, He cannot give us misdirection. Suppose we, in the future we shall not remain. After liberation, we shall not become, remain, individuals. Then that sort of misguidance cannot be given by Sri Krsna. Just like a sane man cannot direct you that "Just go there. There is water in the desert." A man with perfect knowledge cannot give you that direction. A animal may go there. That is a different thing. Similarly, when Sri Krsna says that "In future also, we, all these, yourself, Myself, and all these, they will keep their individuality," so that is not a misdirection. You want to say anything?
Woman: Sure. But is that what the Bhagavad-gita's saying on...
Woman: ...I mean (being?) a lot to it? (?)
Prabhupada: Yes. It is, it is... I'll, I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you the exact meaning. Na tu eva aham: "Neither Myself." Aham means "myself." Jatu. Jatu means "at any time." At any time means present, past, future. Jatu kadacit. Kadacit means "at any time." Nasam: "Not that we did not exist." So na tvam. So this aham, "myself and yourself," na ime, "neither these janadhipah, all these kings." Now, this plural: "Myself," first person, "yourself," second person, "and these janadhipah," third person. Na caiva na bhavisyamah: "It is not that in future also we shall not exist like this, Myself, yourself and all these." You see? Sarve. Now, here it is called sarve. They never becomes one. Sarve means all, plural number. Here means janadhipah. "As they are now plural numbers, Myself, yourself, and they, similarly, in future also, we shall remain like that. We shall remain like that." Sarve vayam atah param: "After this." This is the clear version of number -- you can note down -- number twelve verse of the Second Verse, er, Chapter of Bhagavad-gita.
Bhagavad-gita 2.7-11 -- New York, March 2, 1966