Forgetfulness Of The Lord.

66/07/18 New York, Bhagavad-gita 4.3-6



sa evayam maya te 'dya
yogah proktah puratanah
bhakto 'si me sakha ceti
rahasyam hy etad uttamam
[Bg. 4.3]

Last day we were discussing about the process of understanding Bhagavad-gita. This is to receive the knowledge in disciplic succession, bona fide disciplic succession. It is not a thing... Any knowledge, even material knowledge, if it is not received in bona fide disciplic succession, that knowledge is not perfect. Suppose if you want to be a lawyer, or if you want to be an engineer, or a medical practitioner. You have to receive the knowledge from the authoritative lawyer, authoritative engineer. Of course, I do not know what is the custom here. In India the custom is that a new lawyer, he has to become an apprentice of an experienced lawyer before he is given the license to practice. That is the Indian system. So any knowledge, unless we receive it through the authoritative sources, it is not perfect. It is not perfect.

There are two kinds of processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is deductive, and the other process is inductive. Those who are student of logic, you know that there are two processes: deductive knowledge and inductive knowledge. Deductive knowledge is considered to be more perfect. And what is that? Just like "Man is mortal." This is a truth, accepted. How man is mortal, nobody's going to enter into discussion. It is accepted that man is mortal. Now, Mr. Johnson is a man. So he is mortal. This is the deductive conclusion. Because man is mortal and Johnson is a man, therefore he's mortal. This is the process of deductive knowledge. Now, how this man is mortal, this truth established? The other party, those who are inductive, follower of inductive process, they want to see actually by experiment and observation how man is mortal. They want to study, "This man dies. That man dies. That man dies. That man dies." Therefore they make a general conclusion, "Well, all men are mortal."

Now, in the inductive process you have got some defects. What is that? Now, your experience is limited. Suppose if you have not seen a man who is not mortal, who is not mortal. There may be. Because you are going on with your personal experience, but your personal experience is always imperfect. That I have already discussed. Because we have got our senses with limited power. And there are so many defects in our conditioned stage. Therefore inductive process is not always perfect. The deductive process, from the authority, the knowledge received, is always perfect. So Vedic process is deductive process. Vedic process is deductive process.

You'll find so many verses in the Bhagavad-gita which may appear to be dogmatic. The Lord says that mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "My dear Arjuna, there is nobody else greater than Me. There is no greater authority than Me." Krsna says. Now, apparently, it appears very dogmatic. Suppose if I say before you that, "There is nobody greater than me," oh, you'll think, "Oh, Swamiji is very proud." Yes. If a man like me, who is conditioned by so many, I mean to say, restrictions, if I say that I am the greatest of all, that is a blasphemy. I cannot say that. But Krsna can say. Because the history of life from Krsna, we can understand that actually He was the greatest personality. At least, during His time, He was the greatest personality in every field of activities. Now knowledge received from the greatest personality, greatest authority, is, according to Vedic system, that is accepted as perfect.

There are three kinds of proofs. According to Vedic system, they accept three kinds. For establishing truth, they, they take three kinds of proofs: pratyaksa, anumana, aitihya. In logic also, these three kinds of proofs are accepted. What is that? Now, direct perception. You are seeing. I am sitting here. That is direct knowledge. I am seeing that you are sitting here. That is direct knowledge, pratyaksa.

Anumana. Anumana means just like the children are playing there. We are hearing their sound. So we can conjecture that there are some children. We don't see the children. But we can conjecture, we can think, we can imagine that there are some children who are playing there. This is called anumana.

Pratyaksa, anumana and aitihya, or sabda-pramana. Sabda-pramana means to take the truth from the highest authority. That is called sabda-pramana. Just like "Man is mortal." Now, this "Man is mortal," nobody knows wherefrom this sound has come first. Who has experienced that man is mortal? But we are accepting this. We are accepting this. By tradition, we know man is mortal. Now if we, if somebody says, "Who found this truth first? Who discovered that man is mortal?" That is very difficult to say. But it is coming down. The knowledge is coming down, "Man is mortal," and we accept everything. There are so many examples. So out of these three, the Vedic knowledge, they say that this aitihya, or the knowledge received from the authority, is the most perfect.

Neither, I mean to say, imagination or hypothesis nor direct. Direct perception is always imperfect, especially in the conditioned stage of life. Just like direct perception -- with our eyes we see the sun just like a disc, not more than your plate on which you take your meals. But from authority, aitihya, we understand the sun is so many millions times greater than this earth. So which of them is right? By seeing your direct perception, sun just like a disc -- is it right? Or you take it from authority that sun is such and such times bigger than the earth? Which one of them you'll accept? But you are not going to prove it that the sun is so great. You do not know. You accept from some scientist, from some astronomer, from some authority, that sun is so great. But you have no capacity to see yourself whether the sun is so great or not. Therefore the knowledge received from authority actually we are accustomed and we are accepting this type of knowledge in every field of our activities.
Now, what is this newspaper? Oh, you, from newspaper you understand that "In China such and such things have taken place. And in India such and such things have taken place." Or from radio message you understand that "Such and such things have taken place." But you are not experiencing them directly, whether such and such things have actually taken place. But you accept the authority of the newspaper. You accept the authority of newspaper and you believe it, that in China such and such things have taken place and in India such and such things have taken place, which is far beyond the range of your direct perception. Similarly, there are many instances. We have to believe the authority to take knowledge. And the more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. The more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. Direct perception in all cases, it is not possible to receive direct perception of everything. Take, for example... (shouts from outside on street) Ask them not to make noise.

Devotee: The man's chasing the kids now.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is behind, these children. Ask them.

Devotee: Yeah, that's what... The man's chasing them right now.

Prabhupada: Eh? They are making noise.

Devotee: Yeah. He's chasing them now.

Prabhupada: Hm. So there is one very good example. Now, if somebody wants to know, "Who is my father? Who is my father?" And how he can know? There is no possibility of direct perception to know the father. It is not possible. Then who is the authority? The mother is the authority. When the mother says, "My dear son, here is your father," we have to accept it. If you say, "No, I don't believe you, mother," then you have no other source of knowledge who is your father. You have no other alternative; excepting the authority of your mother, you cannot know who is your father. Because he was your father before your birth, so how you can have direct perception? It is not possible. So many things there are that direct perception is not possible. Therefore in the Vedic process of knowledge the authority has been accepted as the perfect source of knowledge.

Now, here is Krsna, the direct, I mean to say, highest authority. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7]. The Lord says that "There is no other superior personality than Me." And it has been accepted by great scholars. Otherwise, why Dr. Radhakrishnan would take so much trouble for commenting or reading Bhagavad-gita? Why there are so many foreign scholars also in America, in England, in France, in Japan? All, they have... Why? Because it is an authority. So therefore we have to accept. To accept...

If we do not accept Krsna the supreme authority and so not take His words as they are, then we cannot derive any benefit... It is not dogmatic. It is actually fact. It is not dogmatic. If you study scrutinizingly what Krsna says, you'll find it is right. You'll find it, and if you take, if you follow... (kids screaming outside) Oh, they are making too much noise. Can you not ask them?

Devotee: Yeah, I'll ask them. (laughs) Agreed!

Prabhupada: If we take it, accept it as it is, as Krsna says, then actually, we shall be benefited. And great stalwart scholars just like Ramanujacarya, Sankaracarya, Madhvacarya, in India, they have accepted Krsna as the supreme authority.

Even Sankaracarya, who is, who has got a different opinion from the Personality of Godhead. Because we, we, the Vaisnavas, we are, we accept the personal Godhead, but there are other philosophers who do not accept the personal feature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Sankaracarya was the head of this impersonal school. Still, he has admitted in his commentation of Bhagavad-gita that sa krsnah svayam bhagavan: "Oh, Krsna is the Supreme Lord. He's the Supreme Lord." So Krsna is the Supreme Lord, and He's accepted.

Now, now Sri Krsna says that "This Bhagavad-gita, this science of Bhagavad-gita, was first spoken by Me to the sun-god, sun-god. So whatever I am speaking to you, Arjuna, it is not a new thing." The Vedic knowledge, whatever Vedic knowledge you know, it is not, nothing like some discovery of knowledge. No. Everything is old, revealed knowledge. Everything is old, revealed knowledge. Going on. Just like history repeats itself. Just like this is, this is summer season. It is no new newcomer. The summer season comes. You know in your life. The summer season came last year, and again it has come. And we can foretell also that in the month of December there will be winter season. It is not foretelling. It is going on like that, circle. So everything is rotating, history is repeating. So knowledge, whatever knowledge is there, that is not a new thing. It is all old.

So Krsna says, sa eva ayam te, te adya yogah proktah puratanah. Puratanah means the old, puratanah. "I am speaking to you this yoga system, this Krsna consciousness." This Bhagavad-gita yoga system is Krsna consciousness, always to be in Krsna consciousness, this yoga is. So He says that, sa evayam: "I am speaking to you again that oldest knowledge, oldest knowledge of bhagavad-yoga, Bhagavad-gita. I am not speaking to you something new." Now, you can understand that Bhagavad-gita was first spoken to the sun-god, and we have calculated that Krsna's speaking to sun-god, even accepting, it comes to some forty millions of years before it was spoken. You have to believe it. So forty millions of years before it was spoken first. And we do not know how many millions of years it was spoken again before that also. Because history is repeating. And we do not know.

Our fund of knowledge is very poor. We cannot present history of this present world more than three thousand years. But in the Vedic scripture we find history, millions and millions of years ago. That is the beauty of Vedic literature. So because we cannot find out in the modern day three thousand, more than three thousand years of chronological history, that does not mean that there was no history before and there was no historical incidences. No. That we should not conclude in that way.

Krsna says that "I am speaking to you..." Sa evayam maya te 'dya: [Bg. 4.3] "What I am speaking to you now, today, it is not new. It was spoken long, long before. It is that oldest system of yoga I'm speaking to you." Bhakto 'si. Bhakto 'si: "And why I am speaking to you?" This is the point to be noted, that bhakto 'si. This Bhagavad-gita yoga is to be understood by a person who is a bhakta, who is a devotee of Krsna. Nobody can understand it. Bhakto 'si me sakha ceti rahasyam... Because there is a mystery, mystery of Krsna consciousness, which is impossible to be adopted by a person who is not a devotee of Krsna. That is the qualification. To understand, to become Krsna consciousness, it is rather a difficult job because unless one is a devotee of Lord Krsna, it will be a difficult problem. This, this very word, it suggests, bhakto 'si, that one's qualification must be that he's a devotee of Krsna so that he can understand Bhagavad-gita.

Now, Arjuna says that... Now, people, why Arjuna? Anyone can say, "Well, Krsna is a historical personality of Mahabharata. How it is possible that He spoke to sun-god forty millions of years before? Oh, this is something wonderful. How can we believe it?" Suppose if I say that "I narrated, I gave a speech in the sun planet and forty millions of years before," you'll laugh: "Oh, Swamiji's speaking some nonsense, that forty millions of years before he spoke this Bhagavad-gita in the sun planet." But He... That is not the case with Krsna because He's the Personality of Godhead. My case is different. If I say, you can disbelieve it. But when Krsna says, you cannot disbelieve it.

So even if you believe it, or do not believe it, that position is being cleared by Arjuna. Because Arjuna knew it perfectly well that it is quite possible by Krsna to speak such and such thing forty millions of years before because He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But for others, who will hear this Bhagavad-gita in future, for them, he's making the point clear and asking Krsna, aparam bhavato janma param janma vivasvatah: "My dear Krsna, You are born just... You are contemporary of me. Say, eighty years or ninety years before You were born along with me. Your age and my age, practically the same. How it is possible that forty millions of years before you spoke to sun-god?" Just see. It is very intelligent question by Arjuna so that the point may be cleared in future, people may not misunderstand Krsna. Aparam bhavato janma param janma vivasvatah.

Vivasvatah means the sun-god. "Oh, sun-god? Oh, sun planet was created some hundreds of millions of years before and You say that You said to sun-god? How it is possible because You are born not even hundred years completed?" Katham etad vijaniyam tvam adau proktavan iti: "Then how I am to understand it that You spoke formerly to sun-god?" It is, here... It is very intelligent question. It is very intelligent question. Now, what Krsna answers? Sri-bhagavan uvaca. Now, particularly said that, bhagavan uvaca: "The Personality of Godhead says." What does He say?

bahuni me vyatitani
janmani tava carjuna
tany aham veda sarvani
na tvam vettha parantapa

Now, the... (aside:) Yes, come on.

Krsna says, "My dear Arjuna, yes, your question is very intelligent question that you are asking Me how it is possible that forty millions of years before I spoke this science of Bhagavad-gita to the sun-god. Yes. But you, you should know it that bahuni me vyatitani janmani tava carjuna, You and Myself... Although I am God, I take incarnation many, many times. And you are a living entity; you are also taking your birth repeatedly so many times. So we have passed already. The difference between you and Me is this, that tani veda, tany aham veda sarvani, I, I remember what I did in the past, long, long years before, but you cannot remember." That is the difference between God and man, or God and living entity.

Our, our position as living entity... We are also eternal. Just like God is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But the difficulty is that we change our body. We change our body. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like we change our dress, similarly, we change our body. And as soon as we change our body, now, we forget everything. Death means forgetfulness. That's all. Just like at night, when you sleep, you forget yourself. You forget yourself that "I am the father of such and such children, I am the husband of such and such..." You dream that you are in a different place. Sometimes you are on the sea, sometimes on the sky, sometimes on something. You forget yourself. You forget yourself. Again, when you wake up, oh, you remember, "Oh, I am such and such person. I have to do such and such and such and such..." So this is going on. So death means forgetfulness. That's all.

Now, if it is a fact that I am eternal. So before getting this body, I had another body or another father, mother, family or society or country and everything... But do we remember it, in what country I was there? In what family I was there? Sometimes we get news from newspaper that a child is born. He is speaking about his previous birth. Perhaps you know. Sometimes it may be possible in extraordinary cases. But it is a fact. It is a fact that in my previous life I had also another body. I had my father and mother and country and family.

It may be I was a dog or cat or man or bird. That doesn't matter. But as living entity, I am eternal. I had my another body. Similarly, we, we are preparing another body in this life. Just like, under the preparation of my previous life, I have got this body. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. We get our body according to our karma, according to your karma. If we do sattvika-karma... Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah: [Bg. 14.18] "Those who are in the modes of goodness, they are promoted to higher status of life or higher planet, like that." And madhye tisthanti rajasah: "Those who are in the modes of passion, they remain here in this Bhurloka." And adho gacchanti tamasah: "Those who are engrossed with the modes of ignorance, they may be degraded from this planet to another, degraded planet, or another life, or animal life. This is the process, going on. And we forget.

Forgetfulness. There is some incidences that sometimes Brahma, he was cursed to become a, a hog. He became a hog. Then after... Not Brahma, Indra, the king of heaven. The king of heaven, he made some offense under, on the feet of his spiritual master, Brhaspati, and he cursed him that "You are just like a hog. You take the birth of a hog." So he became a hog. Now, when the throne of the heavenly kingdom was vacant due to the absence of Indra -- he has become a hog in this earth -- so Brahma came. Brahma came that, "Mr. Such-and-such, you have now become hog for your offensive activities. Now I have come to deliver you. Please come with me." Now, the hog said, "Oh, I cannot go with you. I cannot go with you. Oh, I have got so many responsibilities. I have got my children. I have got my wife. I have got my country. I have got my society." The hog, he's... So even you offer the hog to take him to the heaven, he will refuse. "Oh, I have got so much responsibility." This is called forgetfulness. This is called forgetfulness.

Now, the Lord Krsna comes that "What you are nonsense doing this material world?" Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You come to Me. I give you all protection." "Oh, I don't believe You, Sir. I have got more important business here. I don't believe You." This is our position. This is our position, forgetfulness. A conditioned soul is forgetful, forgetful. Praksepatmika, viksepatmika. There are... Two forces of nature is acting upon us by which we decide something that "We now, this life, I shall make spiritual advancement. Now it is decided." And next moment the illusory maya, or illusory energy, says, "What nonsense spiritual life you are going to do? Just enjoy this here. You have got so many enjoyments. Why you are thinking like that?" So praksepatmika, viksepatmika. This is going on. So forgetfulness. So that is the difference between God and man.

Here, in the Bhagavad-gita, it is clearly said that "My dear Arjuna, you also had many, many births. You were, you are also, because you are constant companion of Me, so whenever I take incarnation in the, any planet, so you also, you are also with Me. So when I took incarnation in the sun planet and I spoke this Bhagavad-gita to sun-god, you were also present with Me, but unfortunately, you have forgotten. Because you are a living being and I am the Supreme Lord." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord... I cannot remember. Forgetfulness is my nature.

Now, you cannot say... Now... Just now it is eight o'clock. Can you say exactly at eight o'clock what you had been doing in the morning or yesterday, this evening. Oh, you have to remember it. So while I cannot remember even what I was doing twelve hours before or twenty-four hours before, oh, what I can remember what was going on in my previous life? It is not possible.

Another thing is that why Krsna can remember and you cannot remember it? What is that? Why this difference? The difference is that Krsna does not change His body. You'll find in the... this chapter you'll find that Krsna says, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7],

paritranaya sadhunam
vinasaya ca duskrtam
sambhavami yuge yuge
[Bg. 4.8]

Atma-maya, atma-maya. Atma-maya means He comes down as He is. He does not change His body. But we are conditioned soul. We change our body. That is the difference. And because we change our body, we forget everything. That is the difference. Tany aham veda sarvani. Krsna says that "I remember whatever has been done in My previous incarnations, and millions and millions of years before, I can remember them. I know past, future, present. Not only past, future, present of My activities, but past, future, present of everyone's activities." You'll find. Vedaham sama, sarvam etam. In the Tenth Chapter, you'll find that He knows past, present... And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam you'll find that the definition of the Supreme Lord is given as sarva-jna. Sarva-jna.

Sarva-jna means one who knows everything, past, present, future, everything. He's sa... That is the qualification of the Supreme Lord, sarva-jna. We are not sarva-jna. Even as the most perfect living entity, just like Brahma, Siva, they are, they are also not sarva-jna. Sarva-jna is only Visnu, Krsna. Krsna is sarva-jna. So that is the difference between man and God, or living entity and the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. He knows. He knows.

Here it is distinct... If you have to believe Bhagavad-gita, then the distinction you have to believe, you have to take. You cannot say that "There is no difference between me and Krsna." No, there is difference. Here the difference is clearly explained that "That is the difference between you and Me, that you forget. You cannot remember all the incidences of your life, past, present and future, but I can remember." That is the difference.

Now, the next question is that if He does not change His body, why He takes, comes as incarnation? These are very difficult questions. There are some, many difference of opinions amongst the philosophers. Somebody says that Krsna assumes the material body when He comes. No. He doesn't assume the material body like us. Then He could not remember. Just, here is a critical point. If He would have accepted material body like us, then He could not remember because we have got this material body, and due to this material body and change, we cannot remember anything. Therefore the natural conclusion is that He does not change His body.

In the next verse, He says,

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

Now this is called... As we generally call, "God is almighty, all-powerful." Now, here this all-powerfulness is explained. That ajo 'pi: "Although I have no birth... I am eternal." Similarly, the living entity, he has also no birth. This birth which we considered as birth, this is a birth of this body. I am also aja. Not that I was born at a certain time and I shall die at a such time. The birth and death which we have accepted, it is due to this body. But I am not this body. That point we have already discussed, that I am not this body.

So our birth and death calculation is on account of this body. Otherwise, we are as good as Krsna. As Krsna is aja, He never takes birth or never dies, there is no birth or death for Krsna, similarly, we living entities, we have also no birth and death. We are also eternal. But why this birth and death? This birth and death due to my, this material body. So as soon as we get our original spiritual body and get out of the contamination of this material body, then we shall be as good as Krsna. That is the whole process to understand. So we have to...

This Krsna consciousness means that by the process of Krsna consciousness we shall revive our original spiritual body. And when we revive our original spiritual body, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha... [Bs. 5.1]. Sat, cit, ananda. That is the formation of Krsna, and that is our formation also. Sat means eternal. Cit means full knowledge. Eternal, full knowledge and ananda. Ananda. Ananda means bliss. Now, we can make distinction from the spiritual body and the material body is this, that as the description of the spiritual body is given, sat-cit-ananda, eternal, full of knowledge and blissful, so just the opposite number is this material body. It is neither sat, nor cit, nor ananda. It is not sat. Sat means eternal.

Now, this, this body is not eternal. Antavanta ime dehah. As we have already discussed, that this body is perishable, whereas the person who is occupying this body, he's imperishable, imperishable. So this body's perishable. Therefore it is not sat. And it is, it is full of ignorance. Therefore it is not cit. And because full of ignorance and because it is temporary, therefore we have got miseries. Just like we are feeling too hot. Today the temperature is very high. Why we are feeling? Because due to this body. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah [Bg. 2.14]. Similarly, in the month of December we shall feel severe cold. Why? Due to this body. Due to this... And as soon as we get spiritual body, we don't feel. We are unaffected by any material actions.

You'll find that there are many sages and saints who are almost spiritually realized souls, don't care for all this heat and cold. Still you'll find. If you happen to go to Allahabad in the month of December, there is a fair. All sadhus come there and in the severe cold and... Of course, not so cold as in your country, but still, sometimes it is forty degrees, temperature. But you'll find many saints there, bare, I mean to say, body. There is no dress. They are sitting, dead of night. You see? They don't care for cold or heat. You see? Because they are spiritually advanced.

So as you make your progress, spiritually, as you become hot... Just like I have given several times the example. If a iron, iron put into the fire, it gets warm, warmer, warmer and becomes red hot, and as soon as it is red hot, it is no longer iron. It is fire. The iron, wherever it will touch, it will burn because it has got the quality of fire. Similarly, even if you are in these bodies, material body, if you advance yourself in spiritual consciousness or Krsna consciousness, you will be spiritualized. Your body will be spiritualized. You'll be no more be affected by this material contamination. The more you make advance, you'll feel it. Pratyaksavagamam dharmyam. It is not for future tasting, but you'll understand it, understand it. So we have to make our progress in that way.

Now, here Krsna says that "Although I am aja..."

ajo 'pi sann avyayatma
bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakrtim svam adhisthaya
sambhavamy atma-mayaya
[Bg. 4.6]

Just like Krsna's birth, Krsna's appearance and disappearance, is just like the sun, is just like the sun. Now, sun, in the morning, you'll see that it, it appears as if it is born from the eastern horizon. It is not born. The sun is always in the sky. It is the position of the earth in which we understand that sun is now rising from the eastern horizon. He's neither rising, nor he's dipping into the sea. He is, the sun is as it is, in his position, but due to the position, changing position of this earth, we see that the sun is rising and sun is setting. Similarly, the Krsna, when He comes as incarnation, He comes just like this, in the same way.

There is some historical, I mean to, calculation, when Krsna comes on this earth. It is calculated that 864 crores of years after He comes once. Just like you can see the sun rising after twelve hours, after twenty-four hours. The morning sunrising takes place every twenty-four hours or the sunsetting also takes place every twenty-four hours. Similarly, there is also time limit. That is mentioned. When Krsna comes. When Krsna rises. He, He is rising... Just like sun, sunset and sunrising is going on every moment, every moment.

Now, if you inquire where is now sunset or sunrise you can understand in different countries somewhere, the sun is now rising. Now, in America, the sunset and in India it is rising. It is rising. Exactly it is now eight, quarter past eight, and if you know by radio message what is the time in India you'll find that it is quarter past eight in the morning, and the sun has just rising. Now, here the sunset, and the sun... Similarly, if you inquire from Japan or any other country, the sun, the sun is somewhere in the meridian, sometimes it is, I mean to say, dead of night. So this timing difference is just like going on according to the position of the world movement. Similarly, Krsna's appearance and disappearance is like that. It is not that Krsna is born and Krsna is gone. No, it is not like that. Somewhere is Krsna there. Just like the sun is somewhere. There are innumerable universes. The one universe, you see, oh, this is only one, but there are many. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gita that ekamsena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. Ekamsena sthito jagat. This material manifestation, with innumerable universes, is only a one part of manifestation of the Supreme Lord. Ekamsena sthito jagat. These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad-gita.

So we should always remember that we are reading Bhagavad-gita and we should understand it as it is. We should not make any interpretation. That is a wrong thing. And if there was some necessity of interpretation, we should not think that Krsna left the matter for being interpreted by in later age by some scholar. Oh, He could have disclosed it Himself. He was quite competent. No. There is no question of interpretation. We have to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. If we cannot understand, that is a defect in me, not in the Bhagavad-gita. So we have to find out the defect in me. So Lord Krsna says, ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san: "Although I am the Lord, I am the Supreme Lord of everything and although I am unborn, aja, and avyayatma, I have no change, still, prakrtim svam adhisthaya." Prakrtim svam.

Now, you should know there are two kinds of prakrti. Prakrti means nature. You'll find it in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita that the Lord says that He has got two... Why Lord says? In the Vedic scripture also we'll find, parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate: [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport] "There are different kinds of nature of the Supreme." Svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya ca. So out of many kinds of nature of the Supreme Lord, they have divided the whole thing into three divisions. One is called external nature, and the other is called internal nature. And there is another nature which is called marginal nature. The external nature, the material world, manifestation of this material world, is external nature. And this is described in the Bhagavad-gita, as we'll find it in the Seventh Chapter, that apareyam. Apara. Apara means inferior or lower nature, lower nature. So He has got higher nature.

One may question that "Why? The Supreme Lord is all-good. Why He has got higher nature and lower nature?" Yes, He has got because He says. You cannot say that there is no higher nature and lower nature. There is also higher nature. Now, here the Lord says that "When I come as incarnation, when I appear..." Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. Svam means His higher nature. He does not accept this material nature. He does not accept this material nature.

Just like the example... We can give very tangible example. Just like in the prison house sometimes the head of the country goes to visit, to see, to inspect how the prison life is going on or to give them some instruction, some good lesson, that "Why you are rotting in prison? You become good citizen." Now, suppose the head of the state goes to the prison and to instruct the prisoners, and if the prisoners think, "Oh, he is also a prisoner. The head of the state who has come to instruct, he is also one of the prisoners, like us."

So similarly, if we think that Krsna is like us, He is also assumed a material body and He is one of us, then it is a mistake. It is a mistake. That is explained. In the later chapters you'll find. Avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Oh, because I appear just like a man, the foolish man considers Me as one of them. But I am not as one of... I am not one of them." Here it is clearly said that "I appear, I appear." Prakrtim svam adhisthaya. "I appear in My own spiritual nature. I don't accept this lower nature, this material nature." So we are, when we appear... Just like we have appeared. We have appeared in this material world, accepting this material body, the lower nature. But when Krsna comes, He does not accept the lower nature. He comes in His original, superior, or higher, nature. That is the difference between Krsna and ourselves. Here it is clearly said, prakrtim svam. Svam means own, personal, internal nature.

Just like everybody has got some personal affair and some public affair. Everybody. A man, high court judge, he may be, as a public man, he may be a different personality in the high court bench. But at home he's a different person, a different person. In the high court bench one has to address that person, "My Lord," but at home his wife addressing him by his own name, "Mr. Harry! Harry! Why don't you do it?" Oh, there is no question of "My Lord."

Similarly, Krsna has got two nature, lower and higher nature. The higher nature is internal potency. That is His real life. So here Krsna says that "I come." Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san: "Because I need not come here. I need not come." Bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. Just like if He's the Supreme Lord, why does He come here? Yes, He does not need come here, but if He comes here, we cannot object. We cannot object. We cannot say that He cannot come here. He is free. He is svayambhu; He is fully independent. If He likes, He can come. Just like the example: If the head of the state goes to a prison house, it is not that he as been forced to come there just like other prisoners, but he comes to inspect, to see. It is his du..., it is his liking.

Similarly, Krsna, Krsna comes here with a purpose. What is that purpose? He comes here to reclaim these fallen souls. We are part and parcel... We are... Krsna loves us more than we love Him. We do not love Him. But Krsna loves. Krsna loves every living being. He says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah: [Bg. 14.4] "Every living being, whatever form he is, that doesn't matter, I am the bija-pradah pita, I am the seed-giving father."

So the father is always affectionate to the sons. The sons may forget the father, but the father cannot forget. So Krsna comes here out of His love for us to deliver us, to give us the right path. Sarva-dharman parityajya: [Bg. 18.66] "My dear sons, why you are rotting in this miserable world? You come to Me. I'll give you all protection. You are the son of the Supreme. So you can enjoy life very supremely, very magnificently, without any death. Why you are rotting?" That is Krsna's mercy. Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san. Don't think that Krsna comes just like we are come here, being obliged, prakrteh kriyamanani, forced by the laws of nature according to our karma. He does not come like that. That is the difference between Krsna and myself.

Thank you very much. Now, if there is any question, you can ask. [break]

At that time, Krsna gave him a special elevation, to see that form. That is not possible to see by every man. You, perhaps you know it. So at certain stage one has to be elevated to understand Krsna. But these questions are common thing. Common thing. Just like there is a verse in Brahma-samhita.

santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.38]

Now, it is very nice verse that "Santah, those who are spiritually advanced, great sages and saints out of their love for Krsna, they see Krsna at every moment, every moment." Santah sadaiva. Sadaiva means always, without any interval. They always see Krsna. Santah sadaiva. And where does he see? Hrdayesu, in their heart, always see Krsna is present there. Then why? Why? Because he has acquired that qualification by elevation. So of course, to understand Krsna, to see Krsna, it requires the spiritual elevation of life. It is... But that elevation is being taught in the Bhagavad-gita step by step, step by step. We are in the, just in the... So one has to understand Krsna by, step by step. This study of Bhagavad-gita, as you make progress seriously, that is your elevation. That is your elevation. So when one is perfectly elevated.

Just like Arjuna, after hearing this Bhagavad-gita, when he was perfectly elevated, he said, karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Yes, I shall fight." Vacanam tava. He does not say, "I shall fight." He says that "I shall act according to Your word. Not only fighting, whatever You order me, I shall do it." That is the highest point of elevation. He...

In our lowest stage of life, we want to satisfy myself or satisfy my senses. That is the lowest grade of life. Just like the animal. The animals, they have no other business except satisfaction of their senses. That is the lowest grade of life, simply seeking after satisfying the senses. Then highest grade of life? The same satisfac..., not of his own self, senses, but the senses of the Supreme. Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. This is the highest stage of life and the highest stage of life. Lowest stage of life is when the living entity's engaged in satisfying the senses. That's all. And the highest grade of life is when he's engaged in the matter of satisfying the senses of the Supreme. That is the difference. That's all. So this elevation takes place gradually, as we make advance by understanding Bhagavad-gita and similar granthas from authorities. Like that. This elevation takes place. But the lowest point of life and the highest point of life is differenced like this.

The senses are there and the man is there and everything is there. Nothing to be changed. In the bhakti-marga is like that. In the Narada-pancaratra you'll find, tat-paratvena nirmalam. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When one's sense becomes purified... Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Now, at the present moment, I am covered by, I am embarrassed by so many designations. My senses are engaged in performing or satisfying my designational position. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am the father of such and such." "I am the husband of such and..." So my position is now embarrassed with so many designations. So my senses are engaged in satisfying or fulfilling the obligation of this, mean, embarrassment. Now, when these senses are purified by Krsna consciousness, then like Arjuna we shall say, "Yes." Karisye vacanam tava: [Bg. 18.73] "Now I am prepared to satisfy Your senses. I am not going to satisfy any more my senses." That is the difference between spiritual promotion to the highest state and the lowest grade of life. And this you'll find in the Bhagavad-gita very nicely, how he's improving, how he's improving...

Any other question? Yes? (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 4.3-6 -- New York, July 18, 1966