Tamala Krishna: What… Srila Prabhupada, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?
Prabhupada: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect – he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.
Trivikrama: They're all servants of their senses.
Madhudvisa: They will also say that within our movement the so-called leaders also have imperfections.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: They will say, within our movement, that the leaders also have imperfection.
Prabhupada: No imperfection.
Trivikrama: No imperfection.
Madhudvisa: They will say, "Yes, we can give you examples."
Prabhupada: No. No, no. Why? Why you shall accept? They will say. Because therefore they are saying, we shall accept?
Tamala Krishna: Here's Prabhupada. Here's Prabhupada.
Trivikrama: The so-called leaders, maybe they are imperfect, but the real leader, He is perfect.
Prabhupada: Yes, this is test of.
Madhudvisa: They will say, "He also makes mistakes."
Tamala Krishna: Where is that mistake?
Prabhupada: No, there is no mistake.
Tamala Krishna: We have not seen any mistakes.
Gurudasa: Where is the mistake?
Prabhupada: There is no mistake.
Gurudasa: Jaya.
Tamala Krishna: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krishna: What would you define…
Prabhupada: If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken. (laughter)
Mahendra: Like a mirror. You see a mistake but it's yourself.
Tamala Krishna: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: The leader of mistake – therefore immediately gives evidence from sastra. What is the use of quoting from the sastra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."
Madhudvisa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.
Prabhupada: Yes, therefore they… Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.
Madhudvisa: They will say no one is perfect.
Prabhupada: No, that is the… That is your ignorance.
Tamala Krishna: You have never seen…
Prabhupada: Now, just like blind man says, "Nobody is with eyes. Because I am blind, so everyone is blind." Atmavat manyate jagat. That is the way.
Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, the whole thing is actually nonsense because Marx himself in his old age became senile and died in a crazy condition.
Prabhupada: Yes, he must be. He was crazy always. Many, many leaders die like that.
Trivikrama: Every leader.
Madhudvisa: They will point out that our acharyas also died. You say that Marx died, so they will say, "Your acharyas also died."
Prabhupada: Dying, that… There is difference of dying. But nobody, he died… They did not die a crazy. That is the super-excellence. (of our acharyas)
Tamala Krishna: So now you've defined a perfect leader. What is a perfect system? What are the criterion for a perfect system?
Prabhupada: Perfect system means from which we do not suffer. That's all.
Tamala Krishna: No suffering.
Prabhupada: No suffering.
Tamala Krishna: That is the main criterion.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are always hankering after happiness. So we do not like suffering. So if there is no suffering, that is perfect system.
Tamala Krishna: Can you point out any time in history when there existed such a perfect system?
Prabhupada: It is always existing.
Tamala Krishna: Even now?
Prabhupada: Krishna consciousness. Otherwise why you are sticking to this? This is the proof. You are all young men, you have given up everything. Why you are sticking to Krishna consciousness?
Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.18.5
A foolish person who manufactures his own ways and means through mental speculation and does not recognize the authority of the sages who lay down unimpeachable directions is simply unsuccessful again and again in his attempts.
PURPORT
At the present moment it has become fashionable to disobey the unimpeachable directions given by the acharyas and liberated souls of the past. Presently people are so fallen that they cannot distinguish between a liberated soul and a conditioned soul. A conditioned soul is hampered by four defects: he is sure to commit mistakes, he is sure to become illusioned, he has a tendency to cheat others, and his senses are imperfect.
Consequently we have to take direction from liberated persons. This Krishna consciousness movement directly receives instructions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead via persons who are strictly following His instructions.
Although a follower may not be a liberated person, if he follows the supreme, liberated Personality of Godhead, his actions are naturally liberated from the contamination of the material nature. Lord Chaitanya therefore says: “By My order you may become a spiritual master.”
One can immediately become a spiritual master by having full faith in the transcendental words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and by following His instructions.
Materialistic men are not interested in taking directions from a liberated person, but they are very much interested in their own concocted ideas, which make them repeatedly fail in their attempts. Because the entire world is now following the imperfect directions of conditioned souls, humanity is completely bewildered.
Compiled by Damaghosa Das