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After reading this article over, I thought that there are probably many (not just some on my email list) others who will not agree with this assertion  -that all Krsna kirtans are NOT the same.

So for those of you who do not agree, then please , I humbly submit, prove to me and others why you feel this way.

 If you think that all Krsna kirtans , no matter who leads and sings them, are the same and equally beneficial,then you must prove it based upon Srila Prabhupadas books or any other recognized Vaisnava Acarya in our disciplic succession. 

This is the way of making progress in spiritual life. Not thru sentiment, not thru concoction, but thru sastra sadhu and guru.

Hare Krsna

Damaghosa das


Hare Krsna-below we are trying to show how by good or bad association we advance or not, spiritually. This means we must know who is good and who is bad association. The below letters and conversations are meant to show any intelligent devotee whom he should avoid as there seems to be more BAD association than good association out there these days. For those who are just ignorant or innocent, good  preaching can change all that. For those who are puffed up, they will never accept good instruction from the bona fide Acaryas, or those who directly quote the Acaryas.. 

Canaka pandit tells us that you cant find rare jewels on the head of every snake, or pearls in  every elephants head,nor sandlewood in every forest. Similarly to find good devotee association is also very difficult, but it can be found, if one is serious, and one's life becomes sanctified by that association.

So below we have attempted to show the history , according to Srila Prabhupada of the Gaudiya matha then and still today. Some people think all kirtans are the same if Krsna or Rams names are chanted. That is not always true as we can find out by reading below.

Madhya 1.271--Thus Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu chastised all the devotees, telling them not to show impudence and spoil the entire world by becoming independent.
PURPORT--Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu warned all His followers not to become independent or impudentUnfortunately, after the disappearance of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, many apa-sampradāyas (so-called followers) invented many ways not approved by the ācāryas. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described them as the āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāni sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, ativāḍī, cūḍādhārī and gaurāṅga-nāgarī. The āula-sampradāya, bāula-sampradāya and others invented their own ways of understanding Lord Caitanya's philosophy, without following in the footsteps of the ācāryas. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself indicates herein that all such attempts would simply spoil the spirit of His cult

TLC-Ch.18-On the other hand, there are many so-called devotees who think Vedānta is not meant for devotees. Such people are ignorant of the fact that Vedānta is the only platform of pure devotees. All the great ācāryas of the four Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas have made commentaries on the Vedānta-sūtra, but the so-called devotees known as prākṛta-sahajiyā carefully avoid the study of Vedānta-sūtra. The prākṛta-sahajiyā mistakenly take the pure devotees and Vaiṣṇava ācāryas to be mental speculators or fruitive actors. Consequently they themselves become Māyāvādīs and leave the service of the Supreme Lord.

Comment-So just from these two quotes and there are many more, we can see that Bhaktivinode Thakur saw it fit to list the 13 sahajaiya cults present at his time.And now there are many more. So if "all kirtans are the same", then why did the Thakur list these 13 bogus cults who professed to be "devotees of Caitanya"?? It means they were not the same as the actual followers of Lord Caitanya . Srila Prabhupada told us his books would do everything even if the temples all failed. That means the fall back position  was his books, for the rest of kali yuga. The books would be our guides.


LA July 13 1971--Prabhupāda:Unless one is prepared that "I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must accept whatever he says," if there is any doubt, that "I cannot accept his words verbatim," then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy.


Comment-Now let us take a look at the deviations-from this principle---Today it has become commonplace to visit, take instruction from, buy their books and even take initiation from leaders in the Gaudiya matha. This all started with certain iskcon leaders going to Sridhara Maharaj after Srila Prabhupada physically left the planet and hearing from him,Sridhar maharaja, the architect for the breakup of the Gaudiya matha- and he called himself--”the form breaker”. This is what the leaders and present day devotees did then and now do....and it was part of their “fall from grace”....


Before Srila Prabhupada departed he wrote this very important letter to one leader in Iskcon



SP Letter to Rupanuga April 28 1974--

But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year.Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON campActually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acaryaSo it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.  


SP letter 9th November, 1975-"All my disciples should avoid all of my God brothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should we give them any of my books, nor should we purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them."


Comment-So that seems pretty clear to me-avoid the Gaudiya matha leaders and members because they have collectively disobeyed their Acarya, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja. And nothing has been corrected since that time of 1936.


Now below Srila Prabhupada gives us the history behind this and some warnings. 

Sept 21 1973 conversation

Prabhupāda: That Tīrtha Mahārāja. His name is Kunja Vihari Sar. So that was boiling in everyone's heart. So as soon as Guru Mahārāja passed away, so that burst out. And the whole plan was how to get out this Kunja Babu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not how to preach.

Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into... Therefore he advised that "You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager." This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that "You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime." He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?" That was his plan. "Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on. Then ācārya will come by his qualifications." But they wanted that... Because at heart, they were, "After demise of Guru, I shall become ācārya." "I shall become ācārya." So all the ācāryas began fight. One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that "Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them." (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that "There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court. So at the expense of Guru Mahārāja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things." It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers. They were all made at the cost of Gauḍīya Maṭha to fight with (indistinct) in favor of Tīrtha Mahārāja. These were the planned things. But I was a rotten gṛhastha. I did not join any one of them. (Prabhupāda laughs) I was rotting in my household life. That's all. But I was planning how to make, how to make this. That was my desire from the very beginning, since I heard it. But I was never with them, either this party or that party. And Guru Mahārāja also recommended, apnader tasturi tublia thaki bhavan. Takhona (?). "When there will be need, he will do himself. There is no need of living with you. It is better to live apart from you." When I was recommended by Goswami Mahārāja to live in the Maṭha, that "He is so nice." Sometimes he recommended. In Bombay, here in this Bombay. That house. Yes. He (Guru Mahārāja) said "Yes, he is very expert. He can do. So it is better to live apart from you. And he will do everything when there is need." He said. I could not understand. Although I was apart from them, a gṛhastha. In this Bombay I was doing business. 


Comment-So did the iskcon leaders after even being warned, avoid the Gaudiya matha? No, and then the dam broke and all hell broke loose. Ironically and sadly, this same devotee Rupanuga das whom Srila Prabhupada gave this instruction to first, was one of the original devotees to go to Sridhara maharaj for consultation with the "higher authorities"-as if the man who was mostly instrumental in breaking up the Gaudiya matha was a higher authority than Srila Prabhupada?? Total madness.Why go to somebody who wrecks what Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja worked so hard to create? But go they did, and became more confused. 

Bottom line-Srila Prabhupada told us in many places, to AVOID all these people from the Gaudiya Matha, for their association can become poisonous to our spiritual development. (See quotes below)


LA July 13 1971—Prabhupāda: Unless one is prepared that "I am accepting somebody as my spiritual master. I must accept whatever he says," if there is any doubt, that "I cannot accept his words verbatim," then one should not accept him as spiritual master. That is hypocrisy


So what does all this disobedience of the so called leaders have to do with present day kirtans? Good question, and here is the answers..

Feb 25 1977
Outsider, those who are chanting, we don't discourage him.
Rāmeśvara: We want then to chant more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we must... They must know the science also.
Rāmeśvara: Just like this Alice Coltrane. She has done her small part. She made this record album with Govinda Jaya Jaya and Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is... That will be a good thing. But when he (she) does it properly it will be more effective, because there is... If one does not chant in the process, then gradually it degrades. The offense will increase. There is chance.

Comment-The first thing to chanting Hare Krsna mantra is avoiding the 10 offenses.

The third offense is to disobey the spiritual master, the 6th is to give some concocted explanation to the chanting of mantra,and the 10th is to not have complete faith be inattentive and maintain material attachment. Right away, anyone can see that if we don't follow the rules for this process of chanting Gods Holy Names, then what good effect can we expect? 

So if both Acaryas, Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and our Srila Prabhupada tells us that none of his Godbrothers are qualified to become “Acarya”, (at best only Kanistha adhikari),and they go ahead and do it anyway, where does that leave the rest of us?   Following a pack of cheaters and liars.

Srila Prabhupada told us that if these people of the Gaudiya matha say ONE word different than he has, then the whole thing will collapse. So iskcon misleaders let the door open to so many deviations mostly all coming from these Gaudiya matha people. Starting with incorrect ways to do deity worship,introducing neophytes- as spiritual masters, stopping the actual preaching, bringing homosexuals as predator “leaders”, other corrupt leaders who would “milk” the institutions assets due to their greed. And all because- they wanted to KILL GURU to BECOME GURU! 

So if we chant with them, is that the same kirtan as chanting with Srila Prabhupada?

If you are chanting under some blind  deviants instructions, how blind does that make us? Totally blind ! Its like a small snowball rolling down a mountain top-what happens when it reaches the bottom of the mountain? It has become an avalanche. So a so called seemingly "small" deviation in the beginning (deviations from your acaryas orders) produces a huge offense at the end. Why is this difficult to understand? 

Therefore all Krsna kirtans are NOT the same in result.

"Prabhupāda: That is... That will be a good thing. But when he (she) does it properly it will be more effective, because there is... If one does not chant in the process, then gradually it degrades. The offense will increase. There is chance."

July 11 1969 letter-...Out of the ten kinds of offenses, the number one offense is to disobey the orders of the Spiritual Master. The instructions given to the disciple by the Spiritual Master at the time of initiation should be strictly followed. That will make one advance to the spiritual path. But if one deliberately defies such instructions, then his advancement is hampered from the very beginning. This defying means to disconnect the relationship with the Spiritual Master. And anyone who defies and therefore disconnects the relationship with the Spiritual Master can hardly expect the assistance of the Spiritual Master life after life.I hope this will clear up this question sufficiently for you.


Some conclusions--So our consciousness/understanding behind the chanting of Krsna and Ram determines our purity of lack of it. If someone drinks "milk touched by the lips of a serpent it has poisonous effects" If someone is hearing from the purest soul-Srila Prabhupada, there is no problem with getting good instructions, but if we hear and associate with those who are part of a corrupt organization that originally deviated from its own Acarya, then how do we benefit from their “association”. Better to stick with the tried and true representative of the Lord-A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, the actual empowered emissary for Goloka Vrndavana, who is authorized and approved and predicted by all previous Acaryas. 

Bottom line-Srila Prabhupada told us in many places, to AVOID all these people from the Gaudiya Matha, for their association can become poisonous to our spiritual development. (See quotes below)

Quotes  about Asat Sanga-
Madhya 19.157--Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said: asat-saṅga-tyāga,-ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra. The first business of a Vaiṣṇava is to give up the company of nondevotees. A so-called mature devotee, however, commits a great offense by giving up the company of pure devotees. The living entity is a social animal, and if one gives up the society of pure devotees, he must associate with nondevotees (asat-saṅga). By contacting nondevotees and engaging in nondevotional activities, a so-called mature devotee will fall victim to the mad elephant offense. Whatever growth has taken place is quickly uprooted by such an offense. One should therefore be very careful to defend the creeper by fencing it in-that is, by following the regulative principles and associating with pure devotees.
If one thinks that there are many pseudo devotees or nondevotees in the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Society, one can keep direct company with the spiritual master, and if there is any doubt, one should consult the spiritual master. However, unless one follows the spiritual master's instructions and the regulative principles governing chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord, one cannot become a pure devotee. By one's mental concoctions, one falls down. By associating with nondevotees, one breaks the regulative principles and is thereby lost.
SB 5.9—purport-He (Bharata maharaja) was very careful not to fall down again. He did not mix with anyone who was not a devotee. This process should be adopted by every devotee. As advised by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: asat-saṅga-tyāga—ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra. One should strictly avoid the company of nondevotees, even though they may be family members.
Nov 25 1974 lecture...So asat-saṅga-tyāga, vaiṣṇava-ācāra. The Vaiṣṇava, he should be always careful not to intermingle, means not to take up their ideas and thoughts. No. That is vaiṣṇava-ācāra.
June 18 1976-Prabhupāda: No, we want to, what is called, reject that society. We cannot become sympathetic with everyone. That is not our policy. Asat-saṅga-tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was asked what is the general behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He said that the first thing is that you should give up bad company. So these are bad company. We cannot have any sympathy. We cannot make any compromise with everyone. That is not possible.
June 27 1976-conversations--And to become a perfect Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said asat-saṅga tyāga ei vaiṣṇava. Don't talk even with these rascals. But sometimes in the preaching work we have to talk with such rascals, but not to take their theory but to teach them our theory. If you become defeated by their theory, then you are not a preacher. Don't preach, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are not fit for teaching. If you become overcome by their teaching, then you are finishedA preacher is madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. He can preach. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī should be engaged in temple worship, very nicely, then gradually he'll come to the madhyama-adhikārī. So the preacher is madhyama-adhikārī. A kaniṣṭha-adhikārī cannot become preacher. He is in the lowest stage of devotional service; he cannot become preacher. He'll be conquered by the asat. And madhyama-adhikārī, he knows how to deal with asat. At least he does not mix with them. That's all. If he cannot defeat them, he should avoid them, because that valuable time can be utilized for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness to a person who is inquisitive to hear. Bāliśya. Bāliśya means innocent. He wants to know something about Kṛṣṇa. Better deal with him than with the rascals and waste time. Better avoid the rascals. Just like in hospital, emergency cases, the doctor, when they see that this patient hopeless, he does not take care anymore.


Hare Krsna

Damaghosa das

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