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Srila Prabhupada explains the meaning of real liberation

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 Dr. Patel: The classes are complementary.   

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.  

Dr. Patel: The highest evolved man, the brain trust of the country, has got to be poor and has to be protected by other men. That is the highest. Otherwise, if a man with the brain becomes rascal, that is...

Srila Prabhupāda: Miscreant. They are called duṣkṛti. They have got merit, but engaged in sinful activities. That is called duṣkṛti. Kṛti means meritorious. But duṣkṛtina. There are now... The education is there, but their brain is misused. That is called duṣkṛtina. Therefore, they do not believe in God. Big, big men, they are nirākāra-vādī. Dr. Patel: This co-education is no education at all. Education, that was really imparted by (indistinct) and ...

Srila Prabhupāda: Education... This is craftsmanship.

Dr. Patel: I had an appointment to speak on education in the university of Bombay as a member of the Senate. And all the members of the Senate simply said, "Well, we could not help it because it has been so planned by the government." That is not ... This is not education that we're giving them. We are just giving them instruction how to read and write. The real education is the education of the mind by which you can discriminate what is right from the wrong and follow the right. That is what for the education. Modern universities are humbugness to me... The way I observed the university of Bombay working for ten years as a member of the Senate is humbug. The curricular is humbug; management is humbug; everything. Mode of examination is also like that.

Srila Prabhupāda: Because they are not conducted by really educated.

Dr. Patel: The education that has been actually put in practice in India by MacCauley was just to prepare people to run their institutions.

Srila Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja? Can you call him?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Srila Prabhupāda: He said, Girirāja, that there is some declaration by Vinoda Bhave that "I'm now going to retire."

Dr. Patel: Who? Vinobari.(?) (Vinoda Bhave?)

Srila Prabhupāda: "Completely. And now I shall endeavor for mokṣa." So that means till now he was not on the liberation platform.

Indian: He is... Vinoda Bhave is real brāhmaṇa. He is truly a brāhmaṇa.

Srila Prabhupāda: Yes I know that. That may be. Brāhmaṇa is sattva-guṇa. That may be, but that does not mean liberation. There is knowledge. At least he understands what is liberation and what is not.

Dr. Patel: Knowledge put in practice is vijñāna. Jñāna vijñāna saha. Srila Prabhupāda: So, if he's trying for becoming liberated, it is understood that he was not liberated.

Dr. Patel: He must have been disillusioned by all this. He has really done work in this way that anybody would be disillusioned.

Srila Prabhupāda: Now, our point is that if you are not liberated, how you can become leader? That is cheating.

Dr. Patel: This is the (indistinct). The political, socio-political... I don't know the sort of...

Srila Prabhupāda: Our point is that if you do not get knowledge from liberated person, that knowledge is useless. That is cheating. [break] It is very easy. Just like a child. If he takes your direction, he liberated, and if he acts according to his childish nature, then he's conditioned. If you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you are liberated. If you manufacture your own idea, then you are conditioned. Two things. Child is not actually liberated. He is child. But because he takes blindly the direction of the father, he's liberated. That is mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and strictly follows what Kṛṣṇa says, then he is liberated. Otherwise not. If he manufactures idea, then he's conditioned.

SP Walk Bombay, India - January 4, 1977

Compiled by Yasoda nandana dasa

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